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October 31, 2005

Tom Tomorrow speaks for me

Via the perspicacious Patrick Nielsen Hayden, the intellectual father of everyone's favorite left-wing penguin lays it on the line:

"I'm really sick of hearing the liberal-hawks-turned-peaceniks claim that they supported the war only because of Colin Powell's breathtaking performance before the UN, and are shocked and saddened to learn they were lied to. Bullshit. You supported the war because you didn't have the courage to buck what you perceived as mainstream opinion, didn't want to align yourselves with all those dirty hippies marching in the streets. As it turns out, of course, the dirty hippies, i.e. citizens from all walks of life, turned out to be a lot more on the mark than you were. Colin Powell made those remarks on February 5, 2003, and if you were out there reluctantly arguing the case for war before that date, as most liberal-hawks-turned-peaceniks were, then shut the fuck up about Colin Powell and admit you were as wrong as it was possible to be."

Posted by Chris Clarke at October 31, 2005 09:36 PM TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.faultline.org/cgi-bin/mt-tb.cgi/1420

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Comments

A-FUCKING-MEN brother.

Believe me, I know the type: I spent three years of law school holed up with these phony-ass liberals where who too self-conscious to hit the streets with the "smelly hippies".

Well I hit the streets, and what I saw were folks from all walks of life: Family people, grandmas, blue-collar workers, kids, you name it. Sure the hippies were there too; and thank god, because we needed every pair of boots we could get (and even that apparently wasn't enough.)

The thing that enrages me most is how, when I engage them, these same faux-liberals keep telling me how it's my fault the protests weren't more "intelligent" and blaming us for not attracting them to the cause, and how I should stop and think about what I did wrong for not getting them to join in.

Bullshit. They weren't attracted to the cause because they had neither the balls nor the brains to get off their asses, and probably because most of them thought the war wasn't such a bad idea after all.

Now who's stupid? And now we're supposed to cut it with the "Told you so"?

No way. I'm going to rub their faces in it -- not out of schadenfreude or some kind of misguided superiority complex -- but because I want them to remember how fallible they are the next time this happens.

Posted by: Mike Anderson at November 1, 2005 12:13 AM
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I'm still waiting for Bonzo to admit there was no evidence of WMD. But what did our boy do? He punished Joe Wilson and now he has an indictment to his credit. Atta boy, you showed him!

Posted by: David at November 1, 2005 02:14 AM
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Chris! Write to me. I'm in Australia with Shane.
Couldn't find your address to invite you to our wedding (9 years ago!). Miss you! love, E.

Posted by: elissa at November 1, 2005 06:10 AM
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I supported the war because:

1. I believed the Administration's abject lies about the WMD in Iraq;

2. We needed to police the terrorist-supporting Middle East and I didn't really care where we started; and

3. The 25,000 dirty hippies marching past my front door really repulsed me.

Now, I know the Administration was lying to me and I know we should have started with Syria or Iran. But, damn, those hippies still repulse me.

Posted by: carpundit at November 1, 2005 10:36 AM
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2. We needed to police the terrorist-supporting Middle East and I didn't really care where we started; and

3. The 25,000 dirty hippies marching past my front door really repulsed me.

Wow. I give you credit, I guess, for coming clean in a forum where you're probably not going to get much support for the infamous Friedman Because We Could theory. But those are some seriously fucked-up reasons for starting a war that's done nothing but damage our national security, has killed tens of thousands of innocents and looks like it's on track to kill tens of thousands more. Or did the Iraqi civillians repulse you too?

Posted by: eRobin at November 1, 2005 04:25 PM
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3. The 25,000 dirty hippies marching past my front door really repulsed me.

Dude, that was YOU?
Wow.
Sorry about the potted plant thing. The line for the portajohn was just really long.

Posted by: Chris Clarke at November 1, 2005 04:58 PM
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Yay! I'm a dirty repulsive hippy!

(That march changed my life, and I'll forever be grateful I attended)

Posted by: Space Kitty at November 1, 2005 07:35 PM
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Seriously? I was fully opposed to the idea of going to war until Powell put his credibility on the line and told the UN all those scary things. I'm not shocked that I was lied to—I'm pissed, and disappointed that Powell was a tool. Even with the Mr. Scary Powell show, I still objected to the rush to war—"Quick, we must invade before the hot summer starts! Even with no allies! Even before the inspections are done! Yellowcake!" The troops have now been there for three summers, so WTF? No surprise there—just another cockamamie rationale in an enterprise constructed wholly out of cockamamie rationales.

Posted by: Orange at November 2, 2005 10:05 AM
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eRobin,

It's all about the honesty. (Unless you're the President, in which case it isn't.) The Iraq war has not damaged our national security. I doubt it's helped much, except for the flypaper theory, which I don't entirely dismiss, but I don't see the damage. The innocent civilian deaths are an awful consequence of war, but they are not reasons not to go to war if a war is justified.

Stopping Islamic terror is an acceptable justification for war. So is stopping the spread of WMD. So is unseating a genocidal tyrant.

I'd like to see us start the Iraq pullout now, but only to regroup for the coming war with Iran. And yes, it's coming. There's no hiding; they want to kill us. Not because of Iraq. Not because of Bush. Not because we support Israel. They want to kill us because they are deranged, homicidal theocrats and we are not.

Chris-
That was YOU? You owe me $13.49 for the ficus by the front door.

CP

Posted by: carpundit at November 2, 2005 01:19 PM
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=v= The "Colin Powell is a man of integrity" thing perplexes me. I mean, he got famous for loyally bolstering the lies of the first Gulf War, so there's really no excuse for finding him credible this time around. Especially with nonsense that seemed obviously farfetched at the time!

Posted by: Jym at November 2, 2005 03:03 PM
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Stopping Islamic terror is an acceptable justification for war. So is stopping the spread of WMD. So is unseating a genocidal tyrant.

So, when the rest of the world comes after us to stop *Christian* terrorism again, you'll be okay with that, right, carpundit?

Or do you think that dropping umpteen trillion bombs on neighboring countries because you need a distraction and you don't much care about brown people is somehow *not* terror? Or does genocide have a statute of limitations?

Remember, if you're not willing to apply the same standards to yourself, then what you're for is *not* justice, not any sort of ethical principle, but a moral philosophy of I Got Mine Screw You applied on a national scale - and thus no more grounds to scream when it's applied back to you than, say, the Prussian Empire...

Sorry about the potted plant thing. The line for the portajohn was just really long.

(Chris, don't you know by now that Good Manners trumps Morals every time? One cussword destroys an entire logical argument, and bad hygiene is worse than murder.)

Posted by: bellatrys at November 2, 2005 04:18 PM
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bellatrys,
You assume, with no evidence, that I am a hypocrite who likes to bomb brown people. You are mistaken.

"When the rest of the world comes after us to stop Christian terrorism?" What the heck are you talking about?

With very few exceptions, the terrorism in the world today is Islamic. Overwhelmingly. If that changes, if the Islamists achieve some enlightenment and the Christians start blowing up babies, then you can start talking about Christian terrorism instead.

The only thing that destroys an argument faster than one cussword is the display of an irrational worldview. Argue against the war. Argue against the Administration's foreign policy. Argue against our stand on nuclear proliferation. Great. But if you think we're the terrorists, you are disconnected from reality in a disturbing way.

CP

Posted by: carpundit at November 2, 2005 05:21 PM
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With very few exceptions, the terrorism in the world today is Islamic. Overwhelmingly.

That's not actually the case. A plurality of the terrorist attacks in the world these days are committed by Tamils in Sri Lanka.

Posted by: Chris Clarke at November 3, 2005 08:53 AM
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Hi carpundit,

Ever heard of Northern Ireland? I live in the UK, and believe me, i am less worried now, than I was in the late eighties.

Posted by: Laura at November 10, 2005 04:56 AM
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